Fantasies and Magic – Continued

In our last conversation we spoke about fantasies, and from that discussion we understood how revolutionary this question is. You said that the illusions we feed to children through stories about fairies and wizards are literally boundless.

We feed them not only to children but to adults as well — it is pleasant and sells well. Look at what is happening with the Harry Potter stories! Today their author, the writer J.K. Rowling, is considered the most famous and influential woman in England. We can see that there is a demand for fantasies.

I have read all of her books.

Really? As part of your profession?

Not only that. I love fantasy.

How can that be endured?!

I was curious about what people are so delighted with. The narrative is very tense, but it contains many concepts concerning the connections between people, offering help, and doing good. At the same time, there is a lot of evil in it, and even fear. These books, and the films made from them, are very frightening, and when they are given to younger children they cause problems, because they manage to create a sensation of a different reality.

That is precisely where the whole problem lies!

On the other hand, the desire for magic is so real and natural for a person — for children and for adults alike! So how do we present to a child a world that has so many difficulties, if we want to show him goodness and the connection between us?

I think that right now we are going through a period in which we must free ourselves of all these fantasies and miracles.

Of false miracles?

Of all miracles in general and of all sorts of fantasies that have accompanied humanity from its very earliest stages of development. We will be forced to admit that these are empty and harmful amusements, because they provoke in us false notions about reality. As a result of such amusements, we begin to confuse reality with fantasy, and this prevents us from making the right decisions in real life. We look at people and at life idealistically, detached from life. A gap forms between ideals and the true state of things. This confuses a person, irritates him, and pushes him toward rash actions that even he himself does not understand. He lives in an invented world with which real life in no way coincides. Why do we need to paint before a person some world that does not exist in reality?

Are you speaking of an adult?

Yes. But it begins in childhood. First he reads fairy tales in which animals and inanimate objects speak with a human voice. Then it continues in the Harry Potter books and in "rosy" Hollywood films, where suddenly someone loves someone.

There everyone loves! And love itself is an illusion! Let us put it this way: an endless romance.

All of it is a lie! It leads only to failures and troubles in a person's life.

Indeed, today everything they write about in magazines portrays life absolutely idealistically, even on a subject such as pregnancy and childbirth. I fully agree with you that there is much that is empty in such fantasies. But the capacity for fantasy can be used in the process of a child's development. For example, if he wants to feel strong or fast, he can imagine an animal that possesses this quality.

When my father wanted me to become a musician, he took me to the cinema to watch films about great musicians.

But I can see that he did not manage to fulfill his dream…

No, I am a person of a technical bent. But they gave me examples from life and thereby wanted to attract me, rather than simply painting fantasies. We must change our approach and clearly separate out the useful kind of fantasy, the one that helps to plan life, the process of development, and the goal.

Could you explain in more detail what a good fantasy is?

Phenomena that exist in this world and that, beyond any doubt, can be realized — by me or by someone else.

Does this include stories and films about achievements?

Exactly. But these are real achievements. If you want to be like Alexander the Great or Napoleon — go ahead and fantasize, it is possible. Of such fantasies one cannot say that they are groundless. Therefore they are attainable. It is worthwhile for a person to imagine some lofty achievement in order to reach toward it. But what are we doing with fantasies like Harry Potter, Superman, and other fairy tales?

And what about phenomena such as magic tricks?

It is essential afterward to explain how they are done. That develops a person.

First show the trick, surprise them, and then reveal it?

Yes. In this way one can explain many physical laws.

The magician himself explains how he did it, and the child, who at first imagined magic, understands that everything in the world is real.

These are very interesting and complex things. They can be studied and demonstrated in school, with a subsequent explanation. Then everyone would study the natural sciences with joy.

Pure pleasure: physics and magic tricks together! This is a true school of magic, unlike the school of Harry Potter. Psychology distinguishes yet another kind of fantasy: to imagine what will happen to an inanimate object after some action or after it acquires a certain property. This is considered the basis for developing the ability to feel another person. If we abolish it, then we destroy in the child the very feeling that we would like to develop and sharpen in the future.

This is something like identifying oneself with the objects around us.

At first children, as a rule, identify themselves with everything they see, but gradually we direct them toward that with which they truly need to identify. In your view, is this process natural — does it not lead them astray?

This device is natural: a person must identify himself with everything that exists in the world and feel responsible for all of it.

And how do we explain the general force of Nature to a child?

The question is how to explain this not only to children but to everyone, since for adults it is even harder to perceive than for children! To explain the forces of Nature, their connection to a single force, its direction, its goal — for it develops us, and in Nature everything proceeds according to a plan; it is only we who do not understand it. If we come to understand this general force of Nature, if we reveal it for ourselves, then this alone will already change us. This general force of Nature created the entire universe and us, human beings; it governs us and creates everything around us. It can be called the creating force of Nature, because it creates everything. The only point is not to ascribe human qualities to it, but to leave it as it manifests before us — as a force.

Do we not see it, this force?

We do not see it, but we feel its manifestations by analyzing what happens to us, from the actions of this force upon us. At an early age the development of abstract perception happens more easily, and we have examples of this. A child perceives explanations naturally and gets used to analyzing and generalizing, to synthesizing his observations.

Children lack books about the integral relationships among children, about the interdependence and connections between people, about a global form of thinking. We need to write about this, but without fantasies. Children love various discussions. Above all, we must gradually introduce the concept of "Nature." Otherwise they will ascribe to it the qualities of a human being. How can it be a human being, if our universe was created before man was born?

A child, and an adult too, tries to clothe every phenomenon in a form, because it is very hard for us to imagine a force. We come to understand electricity as a force only in the upper grades.

According to research, the universe formed 15 billion years ago. Ten billion years later the solar system and the planet Earth formed. And we have existed on it for a few million years. So how can Nature have the limited image of a human being?

It cannot. But to a child it seems that an adult can do anything, and since Nature can do anything, he reifies the force of Nature.

That is why we say that Nature is a force encompassing all of reality. This force sustains everything it has created and governs it. It, like its other particular forces in the world, has no form. Does the force of gravity have a form? We feel only the results of its actions. The still, vegetative, and animate degrees of nature, and the human being, are the consequence of a single force of Nature. A force is an elusive concept, like electricity, which we can identify only where it manifests in matter.

But surely there is a connection between me and this force? What is this connection between us?

To answer this question, we must first explain the law of equivalence of qualities: we sense only a part of Nature, only those qualities that we ourselves generate. This is similar to a radio receiver: it generates a certain wave, and precisely for this reason it picks up the same wave outside itself. Around me there exist a multitude of phenomena of Nature, but if these qualities are not within me, then I do not sense these phenomena.

Can I ascribe human qualities to Nature, imagining that it weeps and laughs together with me, or is angry with me? Or does it forgive everything and yield? So how had I best explain to a child that Nature has a plan for our development, that it is higher than us? How can we develop within ourselves the qualities we lack, in order to sense all of Nature in all its diversity, if, as you believe, we sense only a small fragment of it?

Here we arrive at a fundamental conclusion! Our entire sensation of Nature is sensed by us within ourselves, in the desire to receive, to absorb. We also call it egoism. And there is another way of sensing — outside ourselves. This we need to develop within us. Nature has prepared a means to develop in us the ability to sense outside ourselves. This feeling develops through rising above our egoism, in the development of a feeling of unity with others, all the way to love of one's neighbor. That is why today we are entering into a global, integral humanity — this will lead us to the attainment of all of Nature.

I love my friend, but not Nature outside myself…

This is not simple, and one cannot give an answer in a couple of words. This idea is instilled in a person gradually, after first explaining his nature and his present feelings. Gradually he begins to become aware of the evil contained in his egoistic nature, and of how it can be changed into bestowal and love instead of hatred and envy.

This is a whole process.

Of course.

One must speak very carefully with a child about his nature being bad.

Children accept this simply and naturally. When the truth is explained to them, they accept it easily.

A child does not want to feel bad.

He feels bad relative to bestowal and love. Do you love anyone?

Come, let us test it with examples concerning friends. Why do you love him? Because he gives you something, or because you are afraid of him? In this way we gradually delve into psychology, and the child begins to see his true nature: he loves no one and wants only benefit for himself. He was born into this nature, and therefore he should not identify himself with it.

Is there anything good in this nature?

No. Where would it come from, if it is written that "the heart of man is evil from birth"? But relative to what is it bad? Here we begin to reveal reality before him: on the plane of this world one set of values exists, while relative to absolute goodness they are the opposite.

But one could tell him that he has an initial good quality of bestowal and love, which only needs to be developed.

If we present this as truth, then the child perceives it simply and naturally: such is nature. Such an explanation is easier to accept than the fantasy and lies that we stuff them with.

And this will be the conclusion of our conversation.